Analog vs. Digital summing

[Bitfiend]

is there really and audible difference? especially with electronica?

[admin]

Well there's no difference period regardless of genre. There is nothing wrong with how digital mixers sum. Any differences heard are from other effects such as distortion and saturation. Mostly the difference is people mix incorrectly in digital and then blame the summing.

Summing is a myth that sells summing units hehe.

[Bitfiend]

Well there's no difference period regardless of genre. There is nothing wrong with how digital mixers sum. Any differences heard are from other effects such as distortion and saturation. Mostly the difference is people mix incorrectly in digital and then blame the summing.

Summing is a myth that sells summing units hehe.

Really?????? Man dangerous words in some territories.....could getcha shot!
When we were in the studio, we were recording thru a great big Euphonics board. beautiful thing it was, into PTHD. I got to asking questions about automation and the board and how it controlled protools and the engineer was like, "oh it doesn't". so i asked what was the use of having a $100K board if it controlled nothing and he said "analogue summing".
so could you please go into depth on this a bit more? how are they mixing incorrectly? are you going with the school of thought that if written correctly (the code) and not truncated OR truncated correctly, the digital summing will always be perfect ergo the audio signal will be as well? So there for the only issue becomes the d/a conversion which is a different topic...

[Bitfiend]

Summing is a myth that sells summing units hehe.

alright explain this one too please....

[admin]

Not much to explain other than digital can sum just fine. As I said what these guys are hearing really isnt 'summing' but the distortion and saturation of the analog circuitry.

What's happened though is summing is now a catch all term for running stuff through a console and hearing a change.

I've run a Logic mix through a Neve 9098i and and the internal Logic bounce was actually wider and had more depth. The Neve did impart a nice color though.

How they are mixing incorrectly would be different on a case per case basis. But I know when I switched from analog to digital my mixes were pretty shit. I took quite a while to get them up to par. When I arrived here I came with none of my analog gear for the most part and challenged myself to make my mixes as good as any analog studio. Having that frame of mind is what's needed. Too many people thing digital isn't going to be as good so they don't push themselves as hard as they could to make their mixes top quality. The lack of hardware is a common excuse for poor mixes when that's not the issue.

[admin]

alright explain this one too please....

Basically snake oil. Manufacturers 'manufacture' 'problems' so they can try to sell you a solution. It's partly why people go so bananas over bit and sample rates, as these companies keep feeding people half truths to sell them on stuff with bigger numbers.

I wish it was as easy as just slapping a summing thing over my mix to make it sound good.

But as I said there is nothing wrong with how DAWs' mix signals. If you like the coloration from running through analog gear then that's one thing, but it has nothing to do with summing.

[Bitfiend]

Well to be honest my mind set has been i should be able to do anything digitally that can be done analogue (except for maybe a modular synth, dunno). I fooled around with analogue gear in my early twenties but not too much, so no held over expectations here.
That's just not a statement i want to make around too many people as i usually get my arse handed to me since i don't know all the technical stuff behind it. I just know i've never been able to hear a difference between the two.

so you're using digital versions, plug-in's, of non-linear effects as well, i.e.- compression, limiter, etc.?

[admin]

Yes right now all digital.

Don't get me wrong there are some cases where analog stuff does have an advantage but summing is not one of them.

[Bitfiend]

Don't get me wrong there are some cases where analog stuff does have an advantage but summing is not one of them.

so what would be an example of a situation where analogue would be preferable to digital?

[admin]

Random pitch modulation and drift in analog synths for one. For instance the unison on my MKS-80 still beats all the software versions I've heard. And for lushness in strings etc... this can be important. Another example would be say a tape echo, each one has its own unique pitch modulation.

Complex nonlinear stuff like distortion and saturation is still better in it as well in certain cases.

And I still haven't heard a tape sim that equals my old Otari MX-70 8 Track 1" sound.

Beyond that there are just analog pieces no one has emulated yet that have their own sound. In this case it's not so much that they are analog as in they are unique and without equal in the digital world.

Overall though I'd say drift/inaccuracy is hard to model in digital as it can be very complex and unique to each unit. Using analog and hardware you get a little bits of this stuff in each piece you use and that can add a bit of life to the sound you might not get in digital.