Summing ITB or OTB?

[James Stichbury]

Hi not sure if this has been asked here, but i always seem to get very grounded answers from medway so here goes...

Talking to friends they tell me you get a lot more stereo width and space in your mix if you mix out of the box. They are using a yamaha digital mixer. Now in my mind, that shouldn't be any different cos its still digital! But they also used to use an analog mixer, but found the digital one better.

To be honest if i got an digital OR analog mixer, i don't think i would use the eq anyway, just the faders for mixing as would have already eq'd in the box. I noticed you can also get a summing box to do just that - sum all the channels in analog without any eq/level or anything, just pure summing. Then i noticed a summing box is almost as $$ as a whole mixer!

So whats the deal with using an external mixer?
..as opposed to a summing box?
...as opposed to mixing in the computer?

[przechuy]

edit,sorry,i misunderstood

[sven hauck]

Summing boxes are possibly a marketing scheme to move more gear, but I'll leave the details for Jesse to discuss as he knows the topic really well.

[admin]

There is nothing really going on with the summing boxes other than getting some analog saturation. If you even slightly clip and saturate in those electronics the average level of the mix will come up. This then makes the mix seem wider, punchier, etc... you get the idea.

Probably about 99% of that can be achieved simple by running the mix through a stereo preamp or something. If anything analog boards have limitations with their summing amps and headroom, digital does not.

There was another case in why people hear a difference brought up by Paul Firndle to do with inter sample peaks. By running tracks out separately that means they are lower level in the digital domain and not turning into illegal overs. So in the case of people not mixing correctly inside the box then this could alleviate those issues.

The bottom line though is used properly digital has no issues summing signals. It's not the summing itself people hear differences in but as mentioned above saturation.

I guess in the end don't confuse the claim someone gets better results with there actually being a technical reason that summing boxes help or actually do something. It's more an matter of for whatever reason they are just mixing better with that option. And in their case the Yamaha doesn't even give the saturation so it has even less of a reason to impart a different sound.

And again as discussed in another thread until they do a side by side with exact same settings and level down to .1 db then the perception isn't valid.

I would recommend getting one nice piece of outboard hardware though. Just being able to clip a good eq or preamp, even compressor will give you that bite that's missing from digital. Non linear distortion is still one of the harder things to emulate it seems so this is a case where analog can give you maybe just a touch better presence.

[Waylo]

great. now i can hijack the thread.

I've always been interested in investing in a key piece of hardware to work on my sound.

Can we explore the various preamp, compressor, eq options out there and have a discussion about which ones may help to rock your sound?

I've heard great things about these:

* Avalon (747 opto compressor)

* TL Audio Ivory 5052 (preamp, eq and compressor)

* Manley Slam

* Thermionic Culture Vulture (stereo valve distortion)

[NuEra]

great. now i can hijack the thread.

I've always been interested in investing in a key piece of hardware to work on my sound.

Can we explore the various preamp, compressor, eq options out there and have a discussion about which ones may help to rock your sound?

Same, once I get an interface, lol

[sven hauck]

Per Jesse's recommendation I picked up an API 2500. I'm still getting the hang of it but it does tend to impart the sound with a certain something that digital lacks. I may post some loops that were treated by it.

[admin]

great. now i can hijack the thread.

I've always been interested in investing in a key piece of hardware to work on my sound.

Can we explore the various preamp, compressor, eq options out there and have a discussion about which ones may help to rock your sound?

I've heard great things about these:

* Avalon (747 opto compressor)

* TL Audio Ivory 5052 (preamp, eq and compressor)

* Manley Slam

* Thermionic Culture Vulture (stereo valve distortion)

Out of all of those the best things I've heard (and only one I'd consider to get) is the Culture Vulture. Avalons are really known more for the eq, especially in rap production for the top end. As a compressor I've never heard anyone really go on about them as there's much better stuff for that job.

I almost got one of those TLs a long time ago but decided to get something nicer as I heard they really weren't that great.

Manley stuff I've heard is good for rock but can get mushy and not good for dance as the bottom end can get muddy.

The API is also something I'd consider.

For something cheaper but cool the dbs 160x's are nice. They have the same VCA as the SSL quad comps and are nice and punchy but round. Used to use a paid of those over the stereo buss. Not sure how much they are not but at the time they'd go for about $200 each.

[Edel]

Dont own one but mos def wouldnt mind having a piece of this
Daking FET Comp II

[admin]

I had the Daking FET original.