Plateau or Paranoia?

[olidenson]

I understand that creating music is difficult to discuss as emotion and feeling are its main impetus, but after 8 plus years of making music I not only have found myself at a sort of plateau but also have some paranoid questions ringing through my head that are quite distracting.

Hopefully there is someone out there that can help set my mind at rest so I can get on and make some tunes:

• I use Ableton Live, does its sound quality qualify its use from creation to the mixing stage (pre mastering). Or should it be piped through something like pro tools or cubase.

• I have some very high end plug-ins like the Sonnox, Waves, T-Racks and Voxengo plugs. Should I hold off on the use of these until I have my track created and turned into stems for the mixing stage, and if so, is it ok to use the more CPU friendly Ableton “Effects” (compressor, eq, reverb) whilst shaping my sounds. This is a difficult question to ask so hopefully it makes sense.

• I’m using Operator more and more lately for drum sounds and bass sounds due to its simplicity. It has really elevated the concept of synthesis for me and now all the controls/knobs on my 3rd party synths make WAY more sense, if not complete sense. I really enjoy Tech sounds, the sort of bass that wouldn’t be out of place in a Digweed or Sasha DJ set. My other synth options are Absynth, FM8, Massive, Pro 53, Reaktor, Alchemy, Arturia Minimoog and Predator.

My question is, how does Operator compare to these, and which one should I focus my attention on (learn inside out) for high quality tech/minimal sounds. (I know this is another one of those hard to ask/hard to answer questions, but it def nags at me that I’m wasting time trying to get sounds out of something that’s not suitable for the job.)

That’s it, and I’m eternally grateful for any help as I find these sorts of thoughts counterproductive when I’m trying to be playful in the creative process.

[przechuy]

I understand that creating music is difficult to discuss as emotion and feeling are its main impetus, but after 8 plus years of making music I not only have found myself at a sort of plateau but also have some paranoid questions ringing through my head that are quite distracting.

Hopefully there is someone out there that can help set my mind at rest so I can get on and make some tunes:

• I use Ableton Live, does its sound quality qualify its use from creation to the mixing stage (pre mastering). Or should it be piped through something like pro tools or cubase.

plenty,or maybe majority, of producers nowadays uses just ableton.I use one of cheapest daws -Reaper .It doesnt matter so much which daw you use,it matters what can you make with it.
Laidback luke is rocking dancefloors using fruity loops....

• I have some very high end plug-ins like the Sonnox, Waves, T-Racks and Voxengo plugs. Should I hold off on the use of these until I have my track created and turned into stems for the mixing stage, and if so, is it ok to use the more CPU friendly Ableton “Effects” (compressor, eq, reverb) whilst shaping my sounds. This is a difficult question to ask so hopefully it makes sense.

You know,the workflow is really diffrent among almost any producer...someone likes to work a lot with VSTs live,someone bounces everything etc etc.Depends what you want,for example i love to work with whole bit complicated mastering chain set up by me .A lot of guys prefers not to use NYTHING at all during this stage and is leaving any processing for mastering engineers,others use just compressor in order to gel mix .... There is no answer as you see,just findd the workflow that suits you and you feel comfortable with.

I use my chain,because i want to know fro mthe beggining how potentially good it can sound.

• I’m using Operator more and more lately for drum sounds and bass sounds due to its simplicity. It has really elevated the concept of synthesis for me and now all the controls/knobs on my 3rd party synths make WAY more sense, if not complete sense. I really enjoy Tech sounds, the sort of bass that wouldn’t be out of place in a Digweed or Sasha DJ set. My other synth options are Absynth, FM8, Massive, Pro 53, Reaktor, Alchemy, Arturia Minimoog and Predator.


My question is, how does Operator compare to these, and which one should I focus my attention on (learn inside out) for high quality tech/minimal sounds. (I know this is another one of those hard to ask/hard to answer questions, but it def nags at me that I’m wasting time trying to get sounds out of something that’s not suitable for the job.)

The VSTi u use is not so much importantIt matters how comfortable you can work with it and what kind of sound acchieve.Often a lot of great synths have opinions of pure crap,just because they dont have fancy factory presets.But someone who knows how to deal with such synth can make gem sounds in a matter of minutes.

I learned it on my own example .If you get desired sound even with theoretically most basic synth,then use it .Noone will ask ask you why u used such synth,if it will sound great,noone on the dancefloor will ask you which synth u used and blame if it is not a "top notch" synth.It just have to work and sound good,satisfy your vision of track.
So basically answer to your questiuon which synth you have to learn-the one that is most comfortable with you and your workflow is ok. Though if you bought all those synths i think you want to learn them all as it costed some money. Just spend some time tweaking,playing,creating your own presets ,not necessary during any kind of production. Learn all knobs,what it changes,read a bit about synthesis ,how any given kind of filters work etc and when you will be master in any synth-it will give you great results.

[olidenson]

Thanks przechuy,

You make a lot of sense. I really just needed to put my mind at rest with these matters as I seem to have difficulty finishing tunes and end up having loads of questions running through my head. It all gets a little daunting , but i adore music and if i couldn't make tracks then my life would really have no defining motivation.

It really is true to learn and find what works for you individually, I just cant stop thinking that I'm doing something wrong or there is something I'm missing.

I definitely create all my own sounds and never rely on a preset (sometimes i find a preset that sounds close and then tweak from there). So i know I'm heading in the right direction.

I thought what you said about the listeners never asking what synth i used was a fantastic way of conveying your point. I appreciate it, thanks.

[przechuy]

i tihnk everyone of us faces such point ...it is all also on my own experiences.

when i start to have idiotic thoughts and then....i read most basic and easiest tutorials for begginers,just to get back on track


there is no need to get paranoid and go to the labirynth of not needed thoughts/stuff.

[przechuy]

http://www.beatportal.com/feed/item/how-...-top-tips/


recently we were glad reding this one .... really basic stuff,so obvious.But often you jsut have to read it once again



and glad that you started such topic

i am sure everyone of us have such problems often,getting into this trap.But i dont know in reality any people producing music.Oh,maybe i know one guy,and he is pretty famous now,but he became a totall ass when he reached a higher status among producers,though he produces shit for rednecks.But always had some knowledge.

i am working as a boucner in a club ,108 kg of a tough mofo,and i doubt anyone would even think that i might be in love in music .And i am destined to rely and read forums ,seeking for people having same problems.

And this board is one of the best,maybe not busiest,but quality is top notch.

Medway with few easy tips improoved my stuff a lot and other guys.Just by reading forum...



And sorry for chaotic posts,damn,i am not a native english speaker,so additional chaos in my posts often is visible way too much

[admin]

Live is fine for mixdowns, I use it as my main sequencer/daw now for a few years and don't have problems with the mixdowns in it. The compressor is my main sidechain compressor but it seemed to be ok for regular compression duties as well. Same with the eq as most eqs are the same quality when put to the same curves.

When it comes to eq and compression though these usually don't suffer much of a hit with even the higher quality stuff so you might be able to get away with it. I'd just freeze the more cpu intensive stuff when you can.

I messed around a bit with Operator, seemed ok but didn't really grab me as overall I found it a little bit too clean and generic sounding. But I think you probably could make some good noises with it.

What kind of computer specs do you have?

[olidenson]

I have an Audio Sonica system I bought about 3-4 years ago.

It's Windows XP SP3, Intel Core2 6700 @2.66GHz with 2GB Ram and 3 hard drives ( I have programs and windows on [C], samples and patches on [D], I use the 3rd for work related stuff/photos etc

It was top of the line when i got it, then a week went by and suddenly the processors jumped through the roof and of course, the prices went down. Just my luck!!

But it still stands most intensive duties to this day so i don't feel the need to upgrade anytime soon.

The freeze function in LIVE is magnificent and now that you can freely move frozen tracks around it's even better.

I also love the ease of use when it comes to the sidechaining capabilities of Live and I end up with some pretty creative chains and sounds that are sucking and ducking.

My main concern was whether normal compression and eq duties were better off with say the Sonnox stuff.

I felt that whilst in the tracking/creative phase i may as well use the built in FX and then move to the Sonnox stuff when mixing, but like you say they don't hog the system too much and there is a definite difference, plus you get better control over the curves and hi/lo pass filters.

As for Operator, I cant help shake the feeling that its a little generic, I really enjoy the simplicity and like i stated before It helped me get to better grips with synthesis as a whole, so for that I'm thankful.

But I'm currently focusing on trying to pick a workhorse synth that I can learn inside out and make pretty much any sound i desire.

I really like Absynth and Alchemy as they both allow wav imports which i find very useful for all kinds of sounds that are a little outside the box. i tend to grab percussive or vocal sounds and then mix them with synth waves to get some decent sounds. From there on its a case of automation and being creative with Abletons Audio rack and sidechaining.

Do you have a favorite synth you tend to grab when your in a slightly less creative mind-frame?

[admin]

Similar specs to mine actually, I've got the 6750 due to being able to o/c easily so it's running at 3ghz.

Agree the freeze function in live is great, also the flatten command.

I think Operator would be ok if you just had Live with no 3rd party but I probably wouldn't use it much if I did.

When I engineer for other DJs I normally use Predator or the Spectrasonics stuff as they're pretty quick. For my own stuff I've been mainly sticking with my MKS80 and then the Pro-12 for Scope. If you're wanting to do Sasha style productions one of the key things is processing your sounds over and over. Even for all my early Medway stuff it was just a Juno 106 sent through effects, sampled and filtered/layered.

So just pick a couple of cool synths you like and spend a lot of time running them through effects, freezing/flattening then chopping, editing and re-effecting.. keep repeating until you come up with something interesting.

[olidenson]

Great tips.

I had a feeling Sasha (and his team of engineers!) were processing audio.

I'm actually very much at home in this realm, for some reason i assumed the incredible sounds I was hearing on Involver 1 and 2 were "outside the box" synth automation, but it actually makes sense that what they do is more deconstructive like BT and Massive Attack.

I just want to note that whilst I'm intrigued by the production of people like Sasha, I'm def more interested in creating something fresh. I just find Sasha's sound intriguing and I'm curious more than anything as to whats going on. I personally love the sound of Gaiser; that's some deep s**t.

I have finally settled on Rapture and Zebra2. I'm in love with Rapture, it taught me that something that has both high quality and comfort of use is key.

Thanks for all your help guys, I'm rockin and rolling again.

[admin]

It might suprise you a little but they use Fruity Loops quite a bit due to the fact it can cross modulate so easily between modules. But ya I think the point overall is if you process a lot then you'll end up with a more distinct sound as it distances you away from people just putting the standard effects on presets type of thing.

Both of those choices should do well, Zebra2 is a nice one.