phase/correlation/cancellation/panning/mono etc

[pk1]

Ive started paying more attention to all this a bit more so ive got a few Qs if you please

I now have all my kick/bass/drums/perc in mono, apart from a few effects etc. and pads /arpeg etc in stereo.

Ive been running each channel through ozone 3 and looking at the correlation & phase meters. Ozone 3 also has the options of mono, switch L/R, invert L, invert R.

Now if the ozone meters show phase cancellation (i think) going on, does that mean that when you convert it to mono parts of the sound will cancel each other out & so not be heard? so if i click the mono button in ozone, as long as im still happy with the sound then its ok right? even if there is some cancellation going on.

What should i expect when clicking the switch L/R, invert L, invert R buttons?
and what should i watch out for there?

ive been using the Waves imager to widen the pads out on a track, but as soon as i do so the ozone3 meters show lots of cancellation. what would be a better way to widen the pad sound? can the asymmetry & rotation help on the imager, or should i be going back to the sound source, or using a doubler or something? Is the idea to have both left & right sides sounding a little different so that they dont cancel each other out?

Finally lol is this only relevant if a track was gonna be put onto vinyl and hence made into mono, or is it important all the time?

Cheers guys,

Paul

[admin]

I'm not familiar with the Ozone meters as I don't use that part of the plugin. I wouldn't be surprised though if what are seeing is cancelation though when using the S1 Imager.

You're right though if you mono out the signal and it sounds ok you're fine. Where you get in trouble is if you have a super stereo effect that's no phase coherent. When you mono out it can just disapear. So say if you plyed the track in a mono system your main riff wouldn't be hear for instance.

So yes as long as nothig bad is happening when you hit mono I wouldn't worry about it.

The issue with vinyl is a bit different. The way vinyl is cut you have depth and width. The more stereo info the wider the cut, which also means less depth. Less depth equals less volume. Also needles can have issues tracking heavy stereo info.

I used to do a lot more stereo widening stuff but I hold off now. I'll let some of the percussion breath left and right and a few effects here and there. But for the most part I don't go too crazy anymore. It just doesn't seem to translate to a club much and you can be asking for problems.

[pk1]

Cheers Jesse for the quick reply

what would be a better way to widen the pad sound? can the asymmetry & rotation help on the imager, or should i be going back to the sound source, or using a doubler or something? Is the idea to have both left & right sides sounding a little different so that they dont cancel each other out?

Any thoughts on this for me?

thanks again mate

[djglenn]

This thread got me to searching around and I came across this at another forum. It's not exactly on topic, but relates to phase, so it kind of relates. I thought it was interesting and gave it a try. I'm curious what you think about actually doing this for a track.

Step 1:
1. I imported the original unprocessed wave-file into track 1 in my sequencer.
2. I inverted the phase
3. I swapped the channels

Step 2:
1. Then I imported the original, unprocessed wave-file into track 2 in my sequencer
2. I was awestruck by the completely bizarre experience of playing around with the volume on the two tracks. Why? Because at some point, these two tracks pretty much "out-volume" each other and you almost get silence. Also, playing around with the volume brings out many extraordinary, unsuspected results like suddenly the bass is very clear, or suddenly you have much more headroom. Or sometimes the overall volume will go up intensively while turning down the volume on one track! Very bizarre!
3. I added a little EQ, compression/limiter and the Paz Analyzer to control my output.

Original came from here: http://www.soundsonline-forums.com/showt...hp?t=11543

And is it possible that the poster "Thomas" is actually Medway's brother?

[admin]

Cheers Jesse for the quick reply



Any thoughts on this for me?

thanks again mate

Oh sorry forgot about that one. Yes if the S1 is giving you problems then I'd just resort to usual effects. Stereo chorus and flanger can be cool. Or sending to a stereo delay. Even better way would be to track the same synth sound but with slightly different settings and pan left and right, similar to how vocals are done.

[admin]

This thread got me to searching around and I came across this at another forum. It's not exactly on topic, but relates to phase, so it kind of relates. I thought it was interesting and gave it a try. I'm curious what you think about actually doing this for a track.



Original came from here: http://www.soundsonline-forums.com/showt...hp?t=11543

And is it possible that the poster "Thomas" is actually Medway's brother?

Well it is a good thing to know about, that is cancellation. This is effectively what you're trying NOT to do as described in the original post here. People have been known to mess with phase on purpose though for affecting the frequency balance of a sound. Some of the TriTone digital plugins have a phase knob that does just this.

And ya there is bit of a resemblance there hehe.

[pk1]

cool, thanks again mate

[sebas]

A little phase trick to sample great snare's/claps/kicks/hats whatever.

1. First I'm looking in tracks who have these samples; then I sample a kick drum and invert the phase.
2. After that I copy paste it (exactly!!) over the other kick with clap.The result? A dry clap without any kick frequency's. You can do this with everything.

Note: you'll need a dry sample first and I'm using sony soundforge 9 for this job. (because you can work precise)

[admin]

Sebas,

Hey great trick for sure. I've not tried that one except for emergency situations where I had to rescue some parts out of a mix. Also probably depends on the nature of the original production, the more digital the better. Would be interesting to see how this works for old soul and funk breaks etc..

[blackwatchstudio]

The issue with vinyl is a bit different. The way vinyl is cut you have depth and width. The more stereo info the wider the cut, which also means less depth. Less depth equals less volume. Also needles can have issues tracking heavy stereo info.

seems like just yesterday when that had to be taken into consideration during mixdown